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Attention ALL!


I need ALL OF YOU to join me on this one!!!!!


* That`s right! Car Fax is now posting their Pricing opinion on ALL DEALER WEBSITES!


When I want pricing information on a New vehicle from Kelly or Edmunds, I have to go to their own website!


What gives Car Fax the right to post their opinion as to how a preowned vehicle should be priced on my own website WITHOUT A DEALERS PERMISSION????!!!


This is so out of control!!!


In a nut shell, obviously Car Fax now what`s to be known as the Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book of "Preowned Pricing" Authority!! Read on my friends........ this is a bad one!
Who in the hell is Car Fax to decide whether or not the vehicle is priced correctly? Car Fax DOES NOT know what I paid at an auction for that particular vehicle or what I had to pay that previous customer as a trade- in in order to make a deal.... Car Fax is definitely stepping out of it`s boundaries with this one!
 Do they really think this "Tool" will really "ENHANCE" a dealers selling process by having to deal with another Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book? ....... Are you guys for real?!

Here`s an example of one of my vehicles & what CarFax, the "New Preowned Pricing Authority" has to say;

I wonder if Mr. or Mrs. Car Fax has every actually sold vehicles???!!  I seriously have some doubts.
A dealer should either be allowed to opt in or out of this "Tool", ......... after all, we are paying for their services.
I plan on posting this on many of the automotive sites that I belong too, in order to make sure dealers are fully aware of this Car Fax nightmare.
*** Please attempt to contact the CEO of Car Fax Bill Eager directly; Phone number 703-934-2664 &
** Please contact your area Car Fax Rep & raise hell! Tell them to drop this within 30 days or Car Fax WALKS THE PLANK!
AutoCheck is looking better & better.......
Thanks for making everyone`s job in the Auto Business a little more difficult CarFax.
Ken Beam
Creative Marketing Director
Douglas Auto Group
430 Morris Ave.
Summit NJ 07901

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Replies to This ADM Discussion


Here's my thoughts: it is just par for the course. With some, there is always uncertainty with change. Would you want this information if you were the consumer? For those looking out for their client's best interest - why would this information be an issue?

Really - it is no big deal. How many times have we been told:

"Kelley says it worth..." or
"Edmunds says I should be able to get it for..." or
"NADA is..." or
"My Banker says..." or
"I saw one listed for..."

It's all the same: here's the bottom line - each used vehicle is unique, and there is a lot of differing information and opinions out there. The market and individual buying/selling is ultimately the opinion that matters most in determining what is fair. Some bring more than the information that is out there, and some bring less - and usually there is a reason behind it.

Remember - "You" are your product. You are the only thing they can't get anywhere else. If we give others the service they deserve, help them find a vehicle that fits their needs; and make it affordable - we can plan on making a fair profit for what we have provided to them in the exchange.

Continue to focus on the service that only you can provide: the sky is not falling.

I will be happy to discuss this information with my clients and shed some light on the "whys" behind it - because it really doesn't matter if you have it for more, or less than their opinion - the question will probably come up. When it comes to living by the Golden Rule, I am not concerned about my clients getting more information - in fact I invite it. If I owned Carfax, I would be adding value to my reports with this same information.

Best wishes to all,

Tobias Sedillos

Well each to his or her own........

The point that has to be addressed is what gives them the right to post this on a dealer`s own website without his or her consent????

Think about that a little bit...

Sure we`ve all dealt with the "Kelly says it`s worth this & Edmunds says it`s worth that" scenarios, but my question is do we really need a 3rd party telling our potential clients what a vehicle is worth in their opinion???

& as for your remark, "I would be adding value to my reports with this same information"..... come on....really?? So what happens when the client says the vehicle is worth $800 less according to Car Fax ..... now how would you like to build your value around that statement Tobias? Listen, I didn`t post this just to get into a debate..... the idea here was to attempt to get everyone to contact their Car Fax Rep & question what & why they are doing this.


I agree that we are all entitled to our own opinion - and there will always be 3rd party service providers that feel the same way. The only way Carfax can express their opinion on my website, is if I am presenting a Carfax report as a credible document of information to the prospective buyer.

With all due respect, and for clarification - I was saying that if I owned Carfax, I would position myself as another source to give an opinion on used vehicle values. If you were a consumer, paying for a Carfax report - Would you want this information?

As for your question "So what happens when the client says the vehicle is worth $800 less according to Car Fax ..... now how would you like to build your value around that statement Tobias?" - I will answer it for you - but first, we have to assume that the price that is $800 more is the fair market value for the car - Fair Enough? An if it's worth +$800 it is probably nice. Ken, you are my customer and you just said that question to me-

Here is my response: "Ken, I always find it interesting that there is a variety of different informational sources to give you their opinion of what a vehicle's value is. There is almost always one thing in common with every instance - they never seem to agree. I used the word "interesting", but maybe a better word would be "impossibe" - simply because a vehicle's true value has to do with the market, condition - and an unlimited number of other factors that should also be considered when selecting your next vehicle: For example, not all 2005 Chevy Trucks are worth the same value - even if they are close in miles - simply because there are other things also to consider - Agreed? (Yes.) Now, the fact that this one is worth more than what they've deemed to be "average" would simply indicate that we are looking at a nice one - and I think we'd both agree that we are - Right? (Yes.) Now- Ken, I know you wanted a nice one at at fair value - and this seems to be exactly that - and the Carfax supports that most others aren't as nice. It won't take me long to finish the paperwork, but by the way - I should have asked - Do you want the paperwork to read 'Ken', or 'Kenneth'."

Ken, I am not trying to debate here either - I was simply sharing my perspective on something you seemed to be very emotional about. It was posted in the discussion section - I am here to learn, grow, and contribute just like everybody else.

Warm regards,

Hey Tobias,

More agitated than!

Anyways...... I had to grab these posts from & share what they`re saying over there about this subject;

Rob Fontano

May 3rd, 2010

O.k well, better late than never I guess. So now that we have the press release, how does this address the previous conversation.

Does Carfax belong in a position of pricing automobiles and should dealers be forced to have this new feature on their websites?

Alex Snyder

May 3rd, 2010

I just wish CarFax would say where these values are coming from.

Brian Pasch

May 3rd, 2010

From what I have been hearing, car dealers do NOT want Carfax in the pricing game. Is this how you feel?

Rob Fontano

May 3rd, 2010

I simply don’t see this feature as a win / win type of value added feature. It is one sided and that is not what we as dealers are paying for.

Carfax should back away from the window sticker and continue doing what it is good at, Vehicle History Reports.

I have asked our rep to explain deductions on certain cars and have heard no response. (email) The feeling that regardless of whether they know “what book” or not, the company line is to stand behind the press release and try not to get any on you.

Tom White Jr

May 3rd, 2010

Dealers do NOT want anyone in the “pricing game” unless said entity could actually bring some clarity and accuracy to the market.

NADA and KBB are already providing data that finance companies, floor plan providers, et al, are using to make lending decisions with little regard for the true actual cost of the inventory acquisition. I can deal with that; however, adding yet another valuation tool, with no idea as to the method of valuation is simply ludicrous.

Nothing more than a company on the verge of extinction moving into another vertical in which they have little expertise or experience to keep the revenue stream flowing… Kudos to them for creating a product paid for by the dealers and then using that product to screw the dealers right back… The Press Release is laughable in its arrogance and ego…

I have been an AutoCheck user for over three years now and have been very satisfied with the service and support. I have had NO negative feedback from customers requesting CarFax branded history reports when provided an AutoCheck…

I would recommend any dealer concerned about this latest CarFax initiative to look into AutoCheck.

Just sayin’

Rob Fontano

May 3rd, 2010

Carfax seems ill equipped to deal with this situation in a transparent manner. It certainly is a telling sign regarding their respect for the dealers they claim to represent. Autocheck will be getting a call in short order.

If we as dealers buried our heads in the sand when one or in this case several of our customers had complaints we would be finished. I am very surprised that Carfax can claim a position in the automotive digital world and be so naive to its scope.

Anyone care to explain reputation management to our friends at Carfax.

Andrew Wright

May 4th, 2010

Carfax definitely does not belong in the price dictating game. The whole concept is awfully subjective. Provide the history report and be done with it. The market dictates the price. Just like one owner cars bring more money than non one owner cars. How much is up to the market. It’s putting the cart before the horse. They are trying to add features to their product so it doesn’t go stale I guess. Sometimes one just needs to leave well enough alone.

Brian Pasch

May 4th, 2010

It would seem from the tone of the press release that CarFax is betting against the 5% of dealers who MAY engage in online forums like DealerRefresh.

Their lack of direct response tells me that they believe that you (members here) have no ability to make enough noise to impact their business model.

The question at hand is how do we make the other 95% hear and particpate in this discussion?

Rob Fontano

May 4th, 2010

How’s that go again Brian, “Don’t piss off an SEO guy”?

Joe Turner

May 4th, 2010

Great point Brian, perhaps using the other more traditional forums, such as 20 groups and state associations.


May 4th, 2010

I posted this in the other thread about “CARFAX – What are you thinking?” but one of their sales guys sent me a .pdf of this release, and with “what dealers are saying” about the product, and it quoted Troy Shields from ‘unknown dealer’ comments from that other thread as some of the great things dealers are saying about the product.

They’re aware of this feedback, but aren’t addressing it at all – at least not publicly. A little interesting that the person’s comments they’re using are from an unknown dealer – has Troy Shields been active on here outside of the Carfax comments before?
Ken's statement; "The point that has to be addressed is what gives them the right to post this on a dealer`s own website without his or her consent????" is the issue that concerns me the most... Since CarFax sells so many dealers on the concept of using their website plugins, and several car companies use the same plugin for displaying Certified Preowned (CPO), then CarFax should provide plenty of advance notice, and give dealers the opportunity to opt out of that feature for traffic referred to CarFax by that dealership's website and inventory... THAT would have been the proper way of rolling out this new CarFax fearture. But, other than the appearance of being sneaky about rolling this service out, I would agree with Tobias that most of us have been handling third party trade-in valuations that customers latch onto for most of our careers selling cars... That part is a non-issue... It is the fact that CarFax rolled this out without offering dealers a way to opt-in or opt-out that bothers so many people, as it should.
Thank you Ralph....... That is the main point of this post.... period.

I certainly hope a lot of dealers start contacting their Car Fax Reps & light a fire under there asses to get it off asap or let us opt in or opt out!

Thanks again
Our stand on this issue is clear. Carfax decided they were going to add this feature without discussing with their customers, the dealerships. Carfax main source of income is the dealerships.

Carfax has been asked directly and through blogs, how are you arriving at these numbers, what "book value" are you using. They have ignored all requests, this includes the reps. I have not heard from my Rep since the day this broke.

Carfax feels that they can force feed us any features they feel benefit them because they have many of the CPO programs in their pocket. We should get a choice as to what goes on our web sites. Make it an option. If it so such a great product then everyone will want it.
I agree Rob.

My Car Fax Rep will not give any direct answers. Heck for that matter our VP called him & asked for the name of the CEO of Car Fax & his response was, "Why would you want that?"... our VP said, "I`m a paying customer & I certainly have the right to talk to someone about this issue" & then it turned into a full blown screaming arguement.

Now the Reps Manager contacted the VP & said, "That we need to document any incidents that arise from this added new feature/tool & she`ll take it off of our bill" -


Forgive me if I spoke out of turn. From the example pictured, it looked to me like they added information to the actual report - not the dealers website. I think AutoCheck provides a similar and fair service to those who want history reports without opinions on valuation. I still think there are plenty of consumers that will look at the Carfax privately. Upon closer examination, I do think it is interesting that is says "$820 less than the Book value" - but doesn't say which book? It seems a little confusing - but I guess if the conversation is about price, and between you and your client; then it seems like the conversation is moving in the right direction: Ownership. It's definitely true that you have to love what you do to have fun at it.

Have a great one,


Hey Tobias,

I`m guessing that you do not provide free Car Fax Reports to your clients on your website.....obviously.

Like many dealers, we do provide a free Car Fax Report on all of our preowned cars for our customers right on our website. Click any preowned vehicle & you can have a free Car Fax in seconds.

That`s where the "Issue" is that I`m referring to...... by Car Fax just posting their pricing opinion on a actual dealers website without their consent!

That`s the other "Issue" Tobias....... What book are they referring too?????

It`s total BS!
Probably one of these books:

Carfax has a large partner network including relationships with companies such as Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, AAA, Carchex, AutoTrader and the NHTSA.

I do not have a Carfax button on my website - but in my advertisements, I put "Free Carfax provided, just request one." Plus, at the time of sale I give them a copy of the carfax - whether they have requested it or not, and have them sign a copy of one to put in my file noting that I gave it to them. Like I said before - I am not afraid of this information. I like my clients being well informed about the vehicle they are purchasing. I care about them more than the car deal - and enjoy a nice stream of repeat and referral clients because of it.

Let me ask you a question - If there was information on the Carfax that would keep your client from wanting to purchase the car; Would you want them to discover it before or after the transaction?



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