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I observed the following "brouhaha" over the course of the past several days on Jim Ziegler's facebook Wall:


A dealer writes to The Alpha Dawg... GET THIS

Yesterday I had a customer call in and ask why when she found a vehicle online on and went to the Finance tab and filled out the credit application she was immediately sent an email telling her to please contact the preferred ROADLOANS/ dealership in her area and proceeded to give her all the contact information for a dealership a few miles away.

She then called Roadloans to ask about the mix up and they told her to just go to the preferred dealer anyway and they would be able to help her find a similar car. When she explained to them that she wanted OUR car, she was told that she would need to call and have us sign up with Roadloans in order to purchase the car...

So basically if I'm getting this correctly, We are paying thousands of dollars a month to advertise on They have partnered with Roadloans to provide credit approval on and Roadloans is then reselling those leads to other dealerships...

That's what the dealer tells me... anyone have a similar situation?


The following are a few of the many responses that Jim Ziegler received... This could also be titled "Day 1 Diary of a Public Relations Disaster":

  • James A. Ziegler Is double-crossing dealers through their finance affiliation?
  • James A. Ziegler Okay, I want to hear from all of you on this one.. what is happening here? Time for the entire tribe to check in on this now.
  • Michael Anthony Brett Trekell Checking on it right now. Call your local representative. is a Gannet company and they have a lot of companies in that group.
  • Allen Geissler I'm curious ..ill fill out an online app when I get to work.
  • Robert Stewart I am sure everyone would like to know what really happens. So lets try it out I own a few dealerships in Columbus ohio and my cars are listed with and we are not signed up with road loans. the first customer with sub prime credit that comes into the dealership we will try it out.
  • Bob Scheetz I've dealt with this before. Customer on my lot had picked a car and then went online to find a loan. Roadloans approved her and tried to send her to a dealership 20 miles away. They do have a policy of only sending customers to their approved dealers, but if they are re-directing customers from, then dealers who pay for these leads and advertising are essentially giving up their business to others.
  • Shane Seys Is it any different than the Credit Bureaus selling leads to dealerships? We pay a fee to pull a bureau then they immediately sell that lead to another dealership. Yet we are required by law to pull that bureau so in turn we have to do business with them.
  • Robert Stewart This makes me sick! We are the only reason these companies are in business. We stopped all of our ads with car-fax now no one even asks for one we sold over 100 used this month and only one customer asked after you take down all the car-fax advertising around the dealership its done.
  • James A. Ziegler Wow This is a heated issue... my phones and private messages and emails are going nuts. You guys are really onto this subject.
  • Gary S. Hart Sounds like a class action lawsuit in the making. Are you also buying leads from Has anyone read the TOA for advertisers? I wonder if they've attempted to cover their tails. 

    My suggestion, even they you did not ask. Have someone go through the same process on and take screen shot. This will prove the theory and can also be used as evidence.
  • James A. Ziegler Amazing! I know a lot of dealers were pissed off at AutoTrader for various things BUT this is the first time has came up on my radar screen. I've been aware of multiple sales of the same leads but this issue today is way over the top. I hope all of you will test it with the same circumstances and get back with me concerning paying customers allegedly having leads diverted to Roadloans preferred dealers. This could become a major AlphaDawg Blog like the TrueCar blogs last year. Okay Tribe, get on the case!
  • David Vatland and autotrader all use roadloans. If you are not a roadloans dealer then you cannot process any paperwork the customer has. I just went thru it. We signed up as road loans dealer so leads would not be sent to other dealers.
  • Megan S Barto Autotrader's credit apps come directly to me - I then log into autotrader's backed using 2 separate passwords & pull the credit apps.
  • Kevin Mullins I've heard nothing like this before but have a call into my cars rep right now....I am skeptical of the claim because it would be a pretty open and shut law suit for the my opinion..
  • James A. Ziegler I don't know Kevin that's why I am listening and not commenting too much. BUT, I have to tell you I'm hearing some similar stories this morning. That's why I asked the question. The letter at the top is exactly the way it came to me.
  • Kevin Mullins Thanks for bringing this issue to the forefront....
    Kevin Mullins I just went to one of our car on and clicked on a sponsored link and this is what it took me too...
    Login to check the status of your car loan or auto refinance application. Haven't applied yet? Whether time is your challenge, or low payments, or both, RoadLoans can help you get your new car now. Just apply online and in less than 30 seconds you receive a credit decision that could g...
  • James A. Ziegler Okay Kevin, if you went to Roadloans off the link on one of your cars on, would Roadloans refer your customer to another dealer to find a similar car? I seem to think they may if you're not signed with them?????
  • Kevin Mullins I would think so too
  • James A. Ziegler Okay, we all know what needs to happen next. Start tweeting and blogging to all your car peeps and call somebody too. Direct everyone to this discussion on this page, its public and anyone can post here. Let's blow it up now!
  • Matthew Heath You're welcome James A. Ziegler. Didn't think it was going to blow up like this. Wow.
  • James A. Ziegler Everybody hit the "SHARE" button on this thread and put it on your own page.
  • Roe Roe I have done both Auto Trader and Cars Applications online and with autotrader, I have not recieved any sponsoring dealerships or phone calls from other dealerships HOWEVER with the cars application, it routed me to a dealership 65 miles away and I already recieved a phone call from that dealership itself. I am still awaiting for a response from my rep and his supervisor. next up will be a call to our legal team.
  • Matthew Heath I've been on the phone with a rep this morning. They're are telling me that this rolled out over the summer and was "such a small part" of what they bring to the table that they didn't bother dealers with it. I was also told that for $300 a month I could purchase their secure credit application that would take it's place...
  • Chris Spensley I have this discussion in different ways with dealers every day- 3rd party leads being sourced through your dealership effort and then resold back to you. This is even worse and a real "hand in the cookie jar" moment!
  • Robert Stewart I just had a meeting with my staff and they found out this was going on two weeks ago they said a customer of ours was upset about it and complained. Our managers confronted and they said they are working on fixing the problem. Still not fixed.
  • James A. Ziegler Thanks, we'll get it fixed quicker I promise you
  • James A. Ziegler How many of you are getting phone calls and messages from about this Facebook discussion???? 
  • James A. Ziegler Wonder if I'm still going to be invited to their party at the NADA Convention?
  • Robert Stewart You sure will get invited but when you arrive you will find out that you have been sent to the dealers united party.
  • James A. Ziegler Robert what is disconcerting to me is that, from what you told me three posts ago, they are aware of this happening and haven't fixed it... if they actually intend to fix it, or could it possibly be a play to force you to roadloans? I don't know but we're talking about an alleged technology company that can't fix their technology?
  • Robert Stewart They fixed the problem at one of our two locations. So the location that complained got the problem fixed and the other location the leads still goes to road loans.
  • James A. Ziegler My phones , emails, tweet messages and Private messages are on overload... this is going viral! Of course Robert, this leads one to ask how many of their customers don't know this is happening to them? (if it is that is) AND the larger question is, what makes us thinks it's accidental if they were able to turn off the complaining dealer? Does this mean they only stop when caught ? I'm asking the questions, I think every dealer should spot check your own paid entries to see if you get rerouted by roadloans.
  • Brian Davis Folks - I'm a good friend of Matthew Heath and his former rep. I can assure you the social pitchfork riot that some folks are interested in starting will do nothing to help you sell more cars today. Our marketing, partnership, and solutions folks will be happy to address to the world with the reasoning and value behind what is being questioned here in terms of Roadloans and My colleague Alex Vetter might be able to help us get the info moving more quickly.

    Thanks for your business and your patience everyone!
  • MORE BELOW - Ran out of HTML Characters!

Tags: CarGurus,, Credit App, Jim, RoadLoans, Ziegler

Views: 1056

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Replies to This ADM Discussion

  • James A. Ziegler Brian, welcome, nobody has started a riot yet. Want to see a riot, I can help.
  • James A. Ziegler We're asking legitimate questions and the dealership people are supplying the answers. If you'd like to see a blog to widen the discussion, that can happen. BUT don't come on here condescending and pious.
  • Kevin Mullins Brian, as a dealer...I just want to see my ad dollars work for me. Not create a platform my potential customer be swayed to purchase somewhere else because we are not a "Roadloans" dealer.
  • Matthew Heath James, speaking for Brian Davis, he's the best rep I've ever worked with in the industry and that's helped him move up at quickly. I reached out to him this morning even though he's no longer a field rep in our area. Like every time I've reached out to him for anything in the past, he's working on it and I'm sure he'll do whatever he personally can.
  • Brian Davis No questions on your intentions guys, I just want you to know that we want to get the correct info and answers out there for you. You deserve to know what you're getting - 100%! Did not intend to be condescending in tone.
  • Chris Spensley I don't participate in witch hunts I just think its fundamentally wrong to direct hard earned clients away from the dealership for any reason whatsoever. The vehicle is being displayed and it appears in searches so the customer can find it... when they do the dealership that has it in their inventory should receive the opportunity. That's a big part of what what they pay for. I am not a pot stirrer its pretty simple math right?
  • John Druien It's probably a good idea to get some of the facts on this before you all blow it way out of proportion. This is NOT new functionality from ANY destination site. And there are not "leads" being resold. If you're a dealer, call your local rep and have them connect you with their ASM from aware that this is blowing up on this page and are addressing.
  • James A. Ziegler Okay Brian we can cool it off or we can take this discussion to places you don't want to go... I see where four other employees have just started following this thread. Nobody is mad at you guys... we're very concerned about several things. Why is this happening? Why can't it be stopped with one phone call to your affiliate Roadloans? It's not a real question that it might be happening, too many dealer employees are saying it is How much refund are you willing to give them? In other conversations, I sincerely hope your upcoming Super Bowl ads are NOT dealer-bashing as rumored. And finally, are you guys rolling out a transactional pricing model ala TrueCar?

  • James A. Ziegler Good points John BUT it is NOT being blown out of proportion even even one paid customer is rerouted.
  • Chris Spensley There is a strong tendency to want o string up the company without hearing the whole story. This is a tremendous opportunity for and I am certain the explanation and the resulting changes will only strengthen the relationship with their dealers.
  • James A. Ziegler There's a whole pack of people on this thread, I'm seeing them on my screens
  • Brian Davis I have a call personally scheduled with our relationship manager for the Roadloans partnership so he can be involved. Matthew Heath gave me the run down on his personal scenario and I am excited to share that with the right people internally.
    I believe you will all agree that we tend to include the dealer in our national advertising as an important and necessary part of the process. We all know who delivers the metal. Why else would we film in dealerships and involve sales people selling cars to happy, informed customers?
    New car updates will be hugely beneficial for our dealers this year. Get ready for the launch next weekend! Thanks!
  • James A. Ziegler Did everyone feel you had questions answered? What did you get out of all of that ?
  • Bruce Roffey Dave Everett , thought this might interest you.
  • Patrick Butler sounded like an advertisement
  • Roe Roe No James. Don't feel my questions have been answered. 4 hours into this and I am still awaiting for an answer from my Rep and his boss. I've already got the higher ups involved with this as well. Smoky mirrors is not an answer nor an option at this time.
  • Bugsy Stidham I will share this with the folks, we are looking into this as we speak if it it happens to me 5 stores pulls the plug right now.
  • James A. Ziegler Roe Roe do you feel they may be tap-dancing around thge issue?
  • James A. Ziegler Bugsy Stidham, You guys are fairly large dealerships, are you checking into it?
  • Roe Roe @ James A. Ziegler Absolutely, That is exactly how I feel. They are dancing around the topic and attempting to come up with a sure proof answer to avoid dealerships wanting their money back and cancelling contracts. I am and always have been a firm believer of these companies attempting to weasel the dealership experience out of the equation. Fortunate for us, no process has been proven effective to date hence we are still delivering cars. There is absolutely no way, that this was not discussed on the table when partnering with road loans.
  • James A. Ziegler I'm going to sit on this and wait to see what happens next.. if dealers continue to complain I'll crank up a major blog and drop 135,000 emails on a targeted list.
  • James Easter uh oh...I smell trouble!
  • James Easter thanks to the dealer that wrote & to you for posting what has become a FB forum on the matter. Intriguing for sure.
  • Bugsy Stidham Jim we are all over it!
  • James A. Ziegler Well James, even though only one dealer put me onto it, a number of other dealers have verified identical situations. It is not an isolated thing. James, you know me, you were among my band of Merry Men on past campaigns. I really do not want to put the time and energy into this to start up and mobilize the troops. I think we can let it cool down. We fired a solid shot across their bow, and they know what could happen. My last blog got 170,000 page views from industry people and we took substantial action. I am more concerned about the rumors that is going to Transactional Pricing model. Let's see.
  • James A. Ziegler Welcome Kerri Noeth and Erin Mays
  • James Easter I hear ya Jim and concur...let's hope & assume that everyone's Cars reps will provide clarity & assistance with this concern. All will be well I'm sure.
  • Clayton Blevins I dumped and autotrader a couple of years ago. Waste of time and money. I sell more cars in my sleep then they can sell with me. You have to guerrilla market on the Internet.
  • Tj Horner Tested it.. They are selling our customer data to our competition. Cars has no response.. They will look into it!! They are saying that those tabs under the vdp are shopper tabs. Not dealership specific. Lol so are maps.. Pictures..vehicle description!! 
  • Ralph Paglia This must be an error on part... I do not believe that they would risk their dealer business for RoadLoans. This sounds like a bad deployment of whatever they are doing with RoadLoans. I can imagine some eager biz Dev guy at putting together a deal with RoadLoans without much strategic supervision. He/she then gets with the site techs and puts the RoadLoans link in a place that appears on every VDP inside The RoadLoans people are ecstatic, meanwhile none of the senior execs at have a clue about the RoadLoans link placement or the firestorm that it will create.
  • Ralph Paglia Over ten years of experience with tells me that a mistake was made... This is not the type of company to do such a stupid move intentionally.
  • Alex Vetter Thanks Ralph. Just landed to this social extravaganza. I've called Chicago and spoke to our teams. We have a technical issue in mapping finance to dealer depending on point of entry and a process breakdown at road loads. Both have been escalated and we will get a complete response out ASAP. Apologies for the delay in jumping in.
  • Chris Spensley I agree with Ralph about the cause- I also agree with the effect. I am certain they will get this righted.
  • Megan S Barto My rep told me that the "in-house" finance app "costs extra" but she didn't know that the OTHER apps were going to Road Loans... she's calling people.
  • Ralph Paglia As Alex points out, this seems like an obvious situation where an error has been made at I cannot imagine such a dealer friendly supplier doing this intentionally. I have worked with the team on several occasions and they have a sincere desire to operate in an ethical manner that delivers substantial value and ROI to their dealer clients. Kudos to James A. Ziegler for exposing this error in a manner that ensures prompt correction. Otherwise, who knows how long it would have gone on, and how much damage would have occurred. I recommend that dealers use this error to get the optional credit app cited at no cost for at least a year!
  • David DeSantis Unbelievable!! quietly rolled this out in the Summer, and didn't think dealers would take issue when they found out about it. If I was a dealer, I'd be demanding a list of credit apps that should've went to my dealership, and didn't. Then let their rep sweat, and stutter about how/why they f%$@ed their customer! tells the dealers for $300 additional they can get in on the action. WTF is wrong with these listing portal sites?? Seriously! It just seriously devalues, and dilutes brand integrity when you're fleecing your own customers. The dealers are (were) paying for the finance leads as part of their fee to Isn't that how they justify value, by leads. Now, they put an additional fee on getting the information that you should've got for free. This fleecing of the dealers has to stop, it's dog s***. Alpha Dawg, cue the photo of "don't run, where your friends"!
  • David DeSantis BTW, I sent a copy of the email to the dealers on my site to bring it to their attention. It's very time consuming, and antiquated to manually upload listings to my site, however I refuse to tap into any dealers system. The upside is that when things really get rolling, there's a bunch of positions that will be created from it.
  • James A. Ziegler I asked Ralph to post because I respect him and he has a high opinion of I have been assured by some cars insiders they are taking this seriously. Let's watch.
  • Megan S Barto Tribe Assembled.
  • Matthew Heath James A. Ziegler from what I'm hearing they are taking it seriously.
  • Todd Caputo I am all over this one with my rep right now!
  • James A. Ziegler I just had a lengthy conversation with Alex Vetter senior VP at They are owning the situation and the conduct of their affiliate and they will not stop working on this situation until it is fixed. I feel really good about what was accomplished today and the way they ( have handled it so far. JIM
  • James A. Ziegler Back off to DefCon 4
  • Brian Pasch Alex Vetter is a stand-up guy and I knew that would be responsive. As soon as I saw your post Jim, I called them to inform of the situation and to get back to you immediately. It looks like a few people did the same because of your readership. Bravo!
  • Mary Ann Gonzalez I'm concerned with's partnership with car gurus. Send yourself a lead on car gurus (you will see that the age of your vehicle is right on the listing telling the consumer it's an old age unit so they should ask for a better you will see a few other not so dealer friendly things on the listings), and you will see that the emails you get back are links to other similar vehicles at OTHER dealerships. They send one to the customer every single day asking them to look at other dealerships vehicles. Just something for dealers to take a look at!
  • James A. Ziegler Car Gurus is the textbook description of anti-dealer
  • Chris Spensley Nice going!!!
  • Amy Eddins Hughes Hello, if any of our Atlanta dealers would like to voice your concerns and have a local management contact keep you up to date, please do not hesitate to message me directly- Amy Hughes, Regional Sales Manager
  • Emily Davis Central and North Alabama dealers are welcome to contact me as well- Emily Davis, Regional Sales Manager for additional information. David DeSantis, I'll be happy to keep you posted with information if you'd like.
  • ToniAnne Lupo Just happened to us today...needless to say we were not happy because we pay thousands a month times 21 stores.
  • David DeSantis Why is it that these companies implement changes that literately screw over their own customers, and ONLY when the screwing comes to light of the masses...they back pedal, and "Oh, we'll fix it!"...BS, if it wasn't for it coming to light, it would be business as usual... Today it's the credit thing tomorrow it will be some other "special program" that the masses found out's just really bad business, and greed...I don't envy the front line reps for obviously have incompetent decision makers at the highest level in the organization, and you guys/girls just have to put on the rubber gloves, and wipe up the sh&^ mess the top bosses make!
  • James A. Ziegler ToniAnne Lupo, I hold you in high regard, and I know you are in charge of of IT sales for one of the largest retailers in our business. Will you please keep me informed?
  • James A. Ziegler David DeSantis you have always been a dear friend as well as a mover and shaker in our business, thanks for helping keep me up on vital issues.
  • ToniAnne Lupo Thank you Jim I definitely will
  • James A. Ziegler Would a representative of please come here and answer whether or not is fueling data and inventory to CarGurus ?
  • James A. Ziegler Those who inquired about CarGurus and This is what some of my friends doing research told me.... First of all I believe CarGurus is the most anti-dealer company of them all, my opinion anyway. As for and CarGurus, I am told it's it's a "soft pull" these vendors pull from their site, they don't choose what gets pushed out to them... kind of like reviews, google can pull what reviews they want
    they as in doesn't choose what the vendor (in this case car gurus) picks. That's what we're told, I certainly hope its not a financial arrangement?
  • James A. Ziegler The last 20 PMs I got on Twitter concerned this topic.
  • Alex Vetter Thanks again to you and your readers for bringing this to our attention. As folks like Ralph have pointed out and as Jim and I have discussed, we pride ourselves on our partnership with our dealer customers and take your feedback as a community very seriously. Our product team is actively working with Roadloans to fix technical glitches and to improve the experience we are providing. For background, I want to be sure everyone understands why we position finance partners on our inventory pages. Providing a financing option on our site is nothing new, and this feature has always been transparent to our customers. This is critical for consumers, and ultimately to help dealers drive sales. Allowing shoppers to clear the finance hurdle from our site gives them the confidence they need to continue on with the purchase process. When we recently partnered with Roadloans, our intent was to make this an even better experience for our dealers in the cases where consumers click through to fill out a Roadloans credit app from a VDP by linking the application to the VIN. As we’ve learned here, this was not consistently implemented, and we’re actively addressing this with Roadloans. 
    We’ll continue to keep you all updated as these fixes go in. More as we have it and I appreciate your patience.
  • Linda Bartman Jumping in here...I'm the CMO of and wanted to address the questions on CarGurus....because the industry continues to manage value in the form of a lead we do have some distribution partners that help contribute to overall lead delivery and CarGurus is one of those partners. However, when we look at consumer behavior within the car shopping process, their natural tendency is to avoid sending leads, in fact less than 10%. We're focused on building products that help get qualified consumers to the dealership and in order to do that effectively, we need to think beyond the lead and understand the consumer behaviors that matter in oder to give our dealers the most value from our audience.
  • Paul Chesher I think it's time for a new dealer listing site. One that actually cares about the dealers. This is getting crazy. How do smaller dealerships keep up?

Continued with a new post on Friday by Jim Ziegler:

Wow! This thing just won't go away. Even after they assured me they're fixing the problems, I was receiving emails and phone calls as late as 10:00 P.M. last night from people that were just hearing about it. I haven't stoked the fire since the beginning but it's still spreading viral now. Cars needs to act soon.

Dammit, now I guess I won't be invited to their NADA Party either. I know CarFax and TrueCar won't invite me to theirs.
  • James A. Ziegler I'm advising everyone to inform your representatives that you're aware of it and you're checking BUT I do not believe there's a reason to do anything beyond that now. I think they're sufficiently embarrassed... especially since AutoTrader who also uses Roadloans does not have the same issues. I spoke to Chip Perry at AutoTrader last evening, he called around 8:00 PM, and he said AutoTrader has a built in safeguard programmed with Roadloans since the beginning. That is why it didn't happen when we tested AutoTrader.
  • Sean Lawrenz What is it 
  • Tracy Cooper No worries, I'm sure Auticheck will invite you
  • Daniel C. Gootee You Could Come to Indy Instead for The Winter Blast.
  • Dustin Snyder Jim, any word on fueling showing customers if the dealer's asking price is a good deal or not? I have heard that dealers who are using are not aware that their inventory is showing up on Sent a test email to a dealer on and got a auto-responder that referenced that showed me that their asking price was a "poor" deal. Any thoughts, information would be helpful.
  • James A. Ziegler I just picked up on that yesterday and it certainly is a double-cross if they have any part of fueling CarGurus. Not happy, CarGuruas is the worst anti-dealer site to come down the pike and any company that partners or sells data to them is not the dealers' friend. At least that's how I see it.
  • Dustin Snyder Agreed my friend! Thanks for the quick response.
  • Lance Sanders got in touch with my rep yesterday and instead of trying to fix the problem they tried to sale me more stuff. Not a good day for them.
  • Travis Mitchell When can we start going after Dealer Rater? They manufacture reviews... Proof Google Search "was very helpful and thorough"
    or any other phrases including misspelled words. It's as if they have used the Vehicle Comments Creator to create reviews.
  • Megan S Barto Maybe you can go to Digital Air Strike's Party.........
  • James A. Ziegler Those who inquired about CarGurus and This is what some of my friends doing research told me.... First of all I believe CarGurus is the most anti-dealer company of them all, my opinion anyway. As for and CarGurus, I am told it's it's a "soft pull" these vendors pull from their site, they don't choose what gets pushed out to them... kind of like reviews, google can pull what reviews they want
    they as in doesn't choose what the vendor (in this case car gurus) picks
  • James A. Ziegler If I keep writing about all of these vendors, I won't get invited to anybody's party 
  • Susan James Heck with em Dawg.... have ur own party!
  • James A. Ziegler Oh, I am just joking around Susan James Debbie and i have places to be..
  • Travis Mitchell You dont have to wear any cloths to the DAS parties.
  • Tim Randell Wow, it was a rough day for, Road loans and Reading your posts has been interesting. Saw this coming for months…hard to believe it took them this long to get caught. I’m amazed that people in the automotive industry are appalled these national powerhouses aren't completely ethical. What a shock! The larger the company, there’s greater risk for corruption. If a company doesn't have your best interests in mind it’s time for a change.
  • Ralph Paglia Looking at yesterday's comments, I cannot help but think that as an industry we need to remain vigilant and responsive to this type of scenario. I disagree with those that commented about being deceptive. It is our responsibility to monitor the performance of our suppliers and when they reconfigure or make "improvements" that compromise the value delivered to our dealerships, then we must speak up and join together to be heard. Having platforms like Jim Ziegler, and others are an asset... Jim has proven this time and time again with TrueCar, CARFAX, now and others. I am not a fan of labor unions, but there was a time when they worked. Collective bargaining is a proven effective means of negotiation... The retail segment of the auto industry has collective voice. Thank you Alpha Dawg for being you!
    Social Network for Car Dealers, Automotive Marketing, Advertising and Sales Management Professionals sharing Internet strategies and tactics
  • Allen Geissler Our internet guru called our cars rep about this this morning.
  • Tom Morris I don't know any Jim Ziegler! Can I get invited to the NADA party now?
  • James A. Ziegler I'm still getting tweets, messages, PMs emails and phone calls about this... Hey everybody, everything I know about this situation was told to me by dealerships and by representatives. Everything i know is contained in these Facebook threads on this page. Please call your CarFax representative if you have questions because, frankly, I don't know the answers beyond what has benn written here.
  • David DeSantis Ralph, I disagree with your comment about putting it on the dealers to do their own "policing" of their vendors. A vendor who is redirecting financing leads to a third party instead of the dealer for monetary gain at the expense of their own customersbest clear deception on's part. Are these Internet training conferences going to recommend IM's add policing your vendors to their job description? Simple test for vendors considering changing something is," if we do this, will it piss off our customers?" Biting the hand that feeds you is a really bad idea! The fact that they have been doing this, and didn't respect their dealers enough to let them deceptive. Lets hear from a rep that's actually told a dealer, "If someone fills out a credit app on your listing, we redirect that to another company, and you don't get it. Well, you can, if you pay X amount more a month."
  • Tim Randell David I agree with you. Major vendors have multiple levels throughout the staff and all want to be paid allot of money. For this they attempt to create revenue streams with multiple levels. Example: reselling customer information multiple times to different venues claiming a new profit stream from each source. This is nothing new within the lead generation industry. In this instance RL is the real devil and has been for years. Money drives this industry so there will always be someone out there trashing the purity for a buck. Vendor clients and consumers are the ones being harmed...for vendors its business as usual...the cycle continues.David DeSantis Tim, it comes down to greed..which is a very bad thing for a company to have, and when you have large companies engaging in deceptive practices in the interest of making more money at the expense of core's all gonna come crashing down at some point. I can't help but think about how corrupt their company culture is when you have everyone out for themselves, and the front line workers squeezing more, and more out of dealers pockets.

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