Professional Community for Automotive Marketers, Car Dealers, OEM and Suppliers
Are You a CarDoll Hater?
First of all, let me make a statement in regards to vested interests and financial motivations: Neither I, nor any of my business partners or affiliated companies receive any payment, advertising funds, or in any way benefit from the success or failure of "The CarDoll". The same holds true for Jamie Lynn's husband (Ted Ing) and his businesses, or any of their other business interests.
I respect the right of each and every ADM Professional Community member to express their opinion, and if you disagree with me, I will usually promote your post! Last Wednesday, Larry Bruce paid me a compliment in Houston when he said to an ADM member who was complaining about "The CarDoll" to me:
"One thing about Ralph, I have posted many articles and statements that he vehemently disagrees with, but I have never seen him delete or moderate somebody for having an opinion different from his..."
(or something like that - sorry Larry if I got that wrong) I am deeply optimistic that a few of you reading this, who disagree with me, may understand that people who are friends can have differing opinions on such matters. I simply feel, in my heart, that to attack someone for the way they dress, or their personal mannerisms is wrong...
Long before certain individuals started talking about punching a young woman in the face for wearing a short dress in an automotive training video, I despised bigotry, racism, prejudice against people who look and/or act differently, along with the intolerant and at times violent behaviors that go with such hateful principles... Such as judging people by their appearance or ostracizing a person because of their looks. Threatening a young person with harm or rallying and influencing others to adopt the same negative attitude and hatreds towards appearance that is outside what somebody has deemed acceptable.
That is probably why I tend to defend the rights of gays, lesbians, people of color, those shorter than me, taller than me, darker than me, lighter than me, or even those stupid car salesmen that don't wear ties to sales meetings! Heck, I am even so far out of the norm that I have willfully, gladly and with a positive attitude sold cars to strippers, porn stars, sluts and the whores that cheat on their husbands (the reverse are the manly men who cheat on their wives).
I have actually accepted payments from people wearing bikinis and short-shorts who wanted to buy a car... Worse yet, I have sold vehicles to many of the undocumented immigrants here in Arizona who get gouged on their payroll taxes, then never file a return to get a refund of their over-payments, but who needed a car to get back and forth from that same job.
One of the best characteristics about the car business (in my opinion) is how, for the most part, we do not act prejudicial, regardless of a customer's appearance... As long as they have the means or credit rating to buy a car.
I have seen restaurants and bars refuse to serve people who look different than their usual clientele, but am proud to say, and thank the Lord that in MY CHOSEN INDUSTRY, I have not yet seen a customer kicked out of a dealership for their appearance, or even something as offensive as too much cleavage or a skirt that is too short.
Maybe my support for The CarDoll (Jamie Lynn Ing) is misplaced, but try to take a look at it through my eyes... Because, I look at the situation this way - I was raised during a time in American culture when many of us were taught that if you don't have anything good to say about somebody, then you don't say anything at all... Those that know me, also know that i have on many occasions violated this principle when a company or person does something i feel egregious enough to speak out about... Such as fraud, charging for a product or service that does not perform as promised, etc. However, in this situation it seems to me that for ANYBODY to put a lot of effort into criticizing and personally attacking a community member in the social media space based on personal appearance is just plain wrong... This is how bullying and some of the related suicides we see in various news reports have occurred.
I had the unforgettable misfortune of witnessing deadly homophobic mob violence in Buffalo New York (outside of a Hertel Ave. bar), when I was 21 years old... The victim was guilty of dressing inappropriately, revealing his sexual orientation in the wrong place at the wrong time. At that moment, maybe I was in shock, I vowed to NEVER become a "hater" and to accept people who were different from me as individuals. Because we are fortunate enough to live in the United States, we are living in what most of us would like to describe as a free country... I was so radicalized by my traumatic experience that I am now foolish enough to believe that if a woman so chooses, she is entitled to wear short dresses, or even show off her cleavage if she wants to. If you find that concept shocking, you better move to Saudi Arabia... Or at least stay away from most Phoenix are dealership Finance Departments.
Now, with that said, I am quite comfortable with informing those that report to me in a work situation that clothing is either appropriate for our workplace, or it is not. I also understand that if the people working in a business are not dressed in a manner that meets the approval of some people, that that business may lose those people as customers. In fact, as incredible as some may find this to be about my background, I once escorted a high ranking Honda executive OUT of a party at NADA because of the scantily clad women who had been hired to mingle with the crowd at the party... (but Ralph, that doesn't happen in the car business!)
But guess what I did not do? I did not insult, assault or even pass judgement on the people who chose to stay at the party, nor did I slap any of the women or "punch them in the face"... as somebody has posted, describing what they want to do to Jamie Lynn (aka CarDoll).
I do not have to become a CarDoll customer, I am not now, nor do I intend to become one... neither do you or anyone else. Quite honestly, her appearance and mannerisms make me somewhat uncomfortable, but for those that enjoy her style of training and communication, more power to you... Vive le Différence!
What ever happened to simply posting a comment expressing a strong negative opinion? Trying to organize a public lynching of anyone for the reasons people are attacking Jamie Lynn (the CarDoll) is far too close to the sentiments that create Lynch Mobs and emboldens those that burn crosses on people's front lawns for my own morality and sense of right and wrong to accept.
How many of the CarDoll's detractors have communicated directly with her and attempted to coach her? I have... Have her other critics? Because, yes... I am a critic and Jamie Lynn and Ted Ing both know it.
If we deem ourselves enlightened, forward thinking "Thought Leaders", then we should refuse to accept "Hate Behavior", or any other form of online or offline bullying and appearance-based judgmental rejection... Where does it end? Are Burqas the next female clothing requirement in the auto industry?
Make no mistake, the way people have expressed a desire to physically abuse Jamie Lynn, to "Punch her in the face" is fueled by the same types of hatred and misogynistic motivations as when a group of Afghan men stone a young woman to death for exposing her face in public... Or, when an Indian girl is gang raped to death and the perpetrators say she had it coming. For those of you spewing hatred and intolerance for Jamie Lynn's appearance.... Osama Bin Laden has 76 virgins for you too.
Every single person in my life who is closely related to me, my daughters, granddaughters, my wife and many of my best friends, are women... I admire and respect women in general. I am thankful that my daughters and granddaughters were born in a country that protects a woman's rights, more so than many other countries (although not as much as several). I am not willing to be neutral or silent about judging any woman solely by her appearance, or the clothing she chooses to wear... Whether it is because she is a devout Moslem, choosing to wear a Burqa, or a Philadelphia news reporter wearing a dress that is too short by Amish standards; either way, such appearance based rushes to judgement and the inflexible standards implied seem wrong to me.
Regardless of the clothing Jamie Lynn (CarDoll) wears or even the way she displays an attitude that seems remarkably similar to what I see so many men expressing in public settings, and then being admired by their peers, and rewarded for, there is something fundamentally wrong with hating her, or attacking her for it.
I find the whole CarDoll bashing thing to be a disgusting example of intolerance and "socially acceptable" prejudice. These are people motivated by opinions far too similar to what drives violence against women, or result in a gay man tied to a fence in Wyoming, then beaten to death. I am ashamed of the people I know who are so eager to hate a woman who dares to act like the TV commercials used to sell cars, or for saying the same things that men are applauded and revered for.
As a whole, this world could use a little more love, and a lot less hate...
Thank you for being one of the few participants in this discussion that "get It"... More importantly, the positions that you, a handful of others and myself have taken are far more "American" and supportive of the concept that we live in a "Free Country", than any of those jumping on the Cardoll Lynch Mob Bandwagon. Also, I agree with you on the theory regarding men grand standing to appear as if they are strong supporters of women's rights and diversity in the car business. However, a little investigation shows that a few of these very same men who cry out as if trashing a woman in a short skirt is something to be proud of, have personally hired over 90% men and less than 10% women during their careers in the car business.
"But Ralph, that is not relevant to this discussion and besides, there were no qualified women who applied for those jobs..."
Really? Better check your "Folders Full of Women", then go get yourself educated and acquire a minimum level of competency in the area of Human Resource Management... Then, explain why you never implemented "Targeted Selection" processes at your company to ensure more women are hired into managerial positions over time.
At this point, the CarDoll Haters have won their battle to crush her business and send her packing... Congratulations to each of you who worked so hard to draw attention, defame, protest and apply a full court press of negativity, criticism and personal attacks on Jamie Lynn's character... YOU WON!
To me, the whole thing stinks... If dealers had refused to spend money on Jamie Lynn and her CarDoll personae, Ted Ing and company would have faded away and many of us could then stand proud and point to what happened as proof that the auto industry is evolving and maturing from a diversity perspective in a powerfully positive way.
That same scenario does not apply to the attack posts and social media rumor mongering designed to bring a company down. The target may have been Jamie Lynn, but their employees are more road kill along the way.
CarDoll may have disappeared, but it pains me that the business has disappeared for the worst of all possible reasons... Mob rule and vigilante style mock heroism. I feel sympathy for those ladies gullible enough to find their masculine heroes in the form of blog posts and comments that seek to bring down a woman-led small business...
Just for the cheap thrill of imagining the gasps and criticisms launched like a barrage of Patriot Missiles... Here are images and a clip bound to become a collector's item:
Trust at a Car Dealership; The Cathcart Model on Automotive Digital Marketing
Stimulate Customer Desire with a Demo Ride on Automotive Digital Marketing
Okay. This strawman thread really, really bothers me. I never saw any haters or bullies here, and I asked in this thread what was actually said elsewhere? I never saw an answer.
I look at the comments here, and the condescension on the part of some supporting the thread and then others who are tired of seeing the "kowtowing to women" here . . . well, that part gets ignored and this strawman of "poor cardoll" continues.
Spill it. If you're going to write about it, then try using something besides innuendo. Or point to specifics in this thread where you feel the bullying and sarcasm of EITHER SIDE of the issue occurred.
For the record, I've never been prouder than when Nancy Simmons laid this thread to it's knees. Anybody who wants to know what this thread deserves can read that post here (you'll need to scroll up once you land).
One more thing, Ralph. The fact that you took down your John Reid post AFTER A COUPLE OF WEEKS, which post was viewed by many as a personal attack on social media, and then you come around on CarDoll . . . well, I count you as my friend. However, that seems hypocritical, to say the least.
CarDoll was intentionally provocative. If you provoke, you can live with the consequences; I'm certainly provoking you with this post, and I'll live with those consequences. To me, it wasn't anything at all to do with issues against a "sexually aggressive female", and I don't think Nancy felt that, either (though we could ask her). It was One More Time Down the road of objectifying women in a professional setting. I didn't support and don't support that activity.
I'll worry far more about the women I'm proud to know and work with in this business before I worry about someone with no experience posting pictures of herself in her underwear to draw attention to training. I choose to support things differently than you.
Either one of us could be wrong. Taking a long history in just this country alone, do you think it was folks like Nancy Simmons who helped most in the women's suffrage movement and got the vote for their gender? Or would CarDoll have been able to be hollowly provocative in that age and been effective?
And I'm not afraid to say that I'm supremely disappointed that CarDoll didn't have the backbone to stick with it--if that approach is right, it needs strength. In fact, this thread here probably brought out more negativity than most anything else it did, and so added to the voice against CarDoll far more than any revelation about bullying it may have brought.
Ralph Paglia, January 31, 2013 at 12:56am:
“Let me respond to your comment by saying that I have had several phone conversations with Jamie Lynn and Ted Ing about The CarDoll... I explained in several ways that their objectives could be accomplished just as effectively with a little more subtlety and less sexual innuendo.”
So I have to ask Ralph, should others be admonished by you for speaking their opinion on the same subject or are you appointing yourself as the sole spokesperson for our industry on this issue?
Did you not explain in several ways how they could accomplish their goals with less sexual innuendo? If you did, what caused you to do it? Was it because you feel they used “too much” sexual innuendo in your opinion? May I suggest that each of us may have a different level of tolerance.
If so, I am guessing you felt strongly enough to speak out against their methods as many others have on this thread
Now, as the dust settles and it appears that Car Doll is no longer, you seem to be attacking those who held similar opinions as a mob rule.
You can gussy it up any way you want but in the end you cannot be separated from the mob. You put yourself on record with your statement above.
My appreciation to Nancy Simmons and to Keith Shetterly in particular for their contributions on this thread.
Ralph Paglia, 14 hours ago:
“ I feel sympathy for those ladies gullible enough to find their masculine heroes in the form of blog posts and comments that seek to bring down a woman-led small business”
I'd like to see exactly what heroes wrote what posts you are referring to? Ones that sought to bring down a "woman-led small business"? I never saw anyone seeking to bring down something because it was "woman-led". I only saw criticism of their approach, which all can face no matter gender.
I’m going to take a wild guess and say few if any ladies are looking for your sympathy Ralph.
Thomas A. Kelly
Thomas, I have consistently recommended that those with opinions of "The CarDoll", either good or bad, contact Jamie Lynn or Ted Ing directly... Regarding your comment about self appointing, at no point did I ever insinuate or imply that my opinions were anything more than my own opinions or sense of right and wrong... I have been wrong often enough to be very aware of my fallibility and would never suggest that my opinions or sense of appropriateness should be forced upon others nor do they represent anyone other than myself.
Keith, in regards to your comment on the John Reid post, when I realized that it was being perceived in a far different manner than what I had intended, never thinking that referring to several failed attempts to launch a DMS as reminding me of a "Bad Penny" that keeps turning up... I switched it to private. Like many posts whose authors have later taken them down, this is usually an effort to correct what the author perceives as either a mistake or an article that was received in a far different manner than intended. When I first wrote the John Reid article, it was simply an expression of my perceptions based on working with him at Reynolds and then watching a lot of excitement generated by press releases that I thought most people would have forgotten, but which present an interesting pattern when assembled in chronological order. Again, I never intended to be hurtful or hateful, my intent was to point out the history and then suggest the same strategy has been repeated several times and has not gained traction. However, there were definitely several comments posted by one individual which were personal attacks and rambling hateful diatribes, the likes of which I have never seen on ADM before or since. This made my decision to take my post private all that much easier, since I am unequivocally NEGATIVE on that level of personal attack and hate filled accusations that have little basis in anything related to the auto industry. However, there were a couple of comments that seemed to validate my "Bad Penny" that keeps turning up analogy:
Comment by Travis Mitchell on December 4, 2012 at 8:28am
"I was the sole dealer that bought Microsoft DMS in 2010. It was then Infonizer based in Denmark. The project failed and huge money was lost everywhere. Infonizer went belly up along with the American Branch (not named.) ADP, ReyRey will not fear this. This is a pipe dream based on a non-Industry specific Microsoft Dynamics. I have 100 Microsoft licenses for this product and cannot get my money back. It also consumes a ton of servers, or costs money to host. Don't get all wrapped up in the hype. This is the fifth attempt to create the Microsoft DMS."
Regardless of that situation, hey, maybe you are right about The CarDoll... Maybe I over reacted to the criticisms I saw repeatedly posted, then removed, then posted again in different venues, but there is no mistaking the results. Also regardless of CarDoll... We still have a problem with online intimidation silencing the voices of far too many people in the car business. I get private messages on a daily basis from people who ask that they remain confidential, stating that they are unwilling to risk the wrath of those who post harshly critical comments and replies... THEIR perception is that many of these criticisms and negative comments are personal and hateful. In my opinion, the determination of whether comments are intimidating is much like determining harassment in the workplace... The validity of determining whether words spoken or written are intimidating, hateful, or personal attacks is not up to you, me or the person posting them... It is how the person they are directed towards perceived them. Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that Jamie Lynn felt the sting of personal attacks, hateful commentary or that there was a degree of intimidation? Having spoken to her a few times, not on my part... I KNOW that she felt attacked and intimidated, and when it comes to evaluating the source of her intimidation, that is what counts... Not my opinion or yours.
In the end... the people who despised Jamie Lynn's approach, style and appearance have won. The CarDoll is no more and any efforts on my part to give her a voice or some sort of "equal air time" were a waste of my own time and energy. Unless, and my hopes are that this may have occurred... Unless there are a few people out there who are less inclined to post hateful comments. Maybe I am a fool to believe that anything I write or publish on such a topic might sway anyone's opinion, but that is who I am... I express my opinions and take the heat, hoping that something changes for the better.
Keith, it looks like you are saying in your comment that the comments (definitions?) posted on "Urban Dictionary" were NOT personal attacks, hateful or could have been intimidating to Jamie Lynn... Somehow, I find that hard to believe. I will send you by private message, since I do not like showcasing, drawing traffic to or proliferating such hateful verbiage.
You've certainly whet my curiosity! As a more or less rookie to ADM and with only 4 years in the auto industry and....having led a sheltered (choke) life, I have NO idea who or what the Cardoll is, but I'd like to....without reading a ton of messages attached to this string.
I take it she's a trainer...? If so, the obvious response would be - if you don't approve of her methods, don't hire her. Wow.....that's too simple though, isn't it?
If she's a dealer across the street from you and drawing your customers, then quite simply...step up to the plate and be better at doing whatever you're doing.
Or you can be a HATER and teach your offspring to follow suit as they grow up and then we can all be haters. YAY!
That, my friends, is what's wrong with this world. That is what causes wars. That's what gets people killed. I actually despise watching my 20 year old walk away from me and seeing his jockeys because the waistline of his jeans meets the knee. But they are HIS jockeys, HIS butt and HIS RIGHT TO BE WHO HE WANTS TO BE and "make his statement". Ditto the fact that wearing a different nonmatching (intentional) sock on each of his feet makes him COOL. Nah, Christopher, it doesn't!
Is the Cardoll sexual? I assume so! Does she have what it takes? Lucky her. Does she get hired despite disapproving comments on this and/or other sites? Then, girl....GO FOR IT! If anything, I'll only be jealous because you have it and I lost it...decades ago!! Be who you want to be, do what you're good at and be thankful you live in the only country that will allow you to do so.
Would I hire you as a trainer in my dealership? NO! Because I want the minds of those that (badly) NEED training focused on something more productive than your sexuality. ;) There's a time and place for everything. I wish nothing but SUCCESS for you.
Cherie Price, your attitude is refreshing! Thank you!
Thank you, Tom.....that's kind of you :)